"Groagun" (groagun)
07/19/2017 at 15:31 • Filed to: None
5
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"Groagun" (groagun)
07/19/2017 at 15:31 • Filed to: None | 5
| 37 |
This was the impression and dare I say intent, of this article today on Jalopnik !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
I consider myself a biker first. Yet, I do not have a bike at the moment and haven’t for quite some time: so yes, that may seem or sound silly.
For me, that statement stems from my passion, the feeling I get when thinking about and lusting after the objects of my desire. I work in the auto/truck/transportation business and have been in and around some of the most beautiful and exotic cars of all time. But my true love is motorcycles.
We are a different breed. We do not look at the world the way you do. It’s not night and day different but know that it is different. I cannot put into words what is so special about being on a bike. It’s a feeling, an experience in the moment: one that you can live at any time and any where and only within the confines of your own head.
I can try and explain it too you but you simply just have to experience it for yourself. It is not for everyone. I respect those who don’t like it or simply just don’t want to. I would encourage everyone to get some training at a minimum so as to live in a bikers shoes/boots for just long enough to understand what it’s like to ride out in the free world amongst and outnumbered by the thousands of cars and trucks.
The picture above was found on, as all my pictures are, Google. I saw it and just laughed. Perfectly encapsulating what I think the real problem is.
It’ s not just that the current crop of motorcyclists are generally old, that’s way too simplistic, it’s a failure of the leadership over the past 30 years to keep the industry moving forward and fresh.
Remember this guy? I hope you do. For those who don’t, this is Marlon Brando in The Wild One from 1953.
In my opinion, maybe the coolest cat ever, Steve McQueen. Noted car guy and racer, he earned his legend status, but his bike exploits are even cooler.
And now onto the maybe the most important American movie of the past 100 years. Motorcycles are central to the story but not the story. A coming of age story about a country, not an individual, but artfully and skillfully told through the stories of the individuals.
Easy Rider from 1969. Good damn, Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper are the coolest mother fuckers on the planet. All the attitude and swagger in a mild mannered approach. Truly threatening to no one but as free as any human being ever could be. Open to the world and thriving on experiencing new and different people, places and things that the future held. The dreams, aspirations, desires and thoughts of what the world could be and should be.
!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!
I could write endlessly about the failures of the baby boomers: the peace and love generation that when that stopped working, put on their suits, got their haircuts and raped and pillaged the Earth until there wasn’t much left. But that’s not the deal here.
No, instead, the powers that be over the last 30 years have focused on the here and now: not tomorrow, now, RIGHT FUCKING NOW!
Who are the heroes, the cool ones that my generation and the one just behind me can look to. I’m thinking long and hard and I’m sure some of you have a few suggestions but, there is no Brando or McQueen or Fonda/Hopper.
Apathy, complacency and the pursuit of the dollar, today’s dollar, not tomorrows, today’s, has contributed to the allure and cool factor in motorcycling being killed off.
Yes, the Ducati Panigale 1299 Superleggera is cool, so is the BMW R1200GS, so is the retro cafe racer movement currently taking place. But who is appealing to the average Joe/Jane? The guy or gal who hasn’t given riding a single, let alone second though?
A motorcycle is way more than just a mode of transport. Motorcycles represent culture and diversity. Art, expression, political movement, individuality, freedom: all of these and many more, encompass motorcycles and motorcycling as a whole.
HD and others can’t be afraid to move forward. I don’t know from a technical standpoint what the next generation of motorcycles are going to be. Maybe it is this
Then again maybe not?
All I do know is that it doesn’t matter. No one needs to motorcycle to get from A-B and back to A. There are other safer and cheaper choices. Biking is a choice, a passion and for some in totality, a lifestyle.
All bikers though, are influenced by just being a biker, so it does shape your life and it’s style. This can’t be the image and ‘hero’ we need or deserve.
In the current political climate and cultural nexus of America in particular, we need an outlaw, a rebel. Someone to bring the truth and come riding in on his or her two wheels. Strength in character and conviction, lead by the truth and unafraid to say what needs to be said and to whom it needs saying.
it certainly wont come from some guy getting out of an armor plated Cadillac.
HammerheadFistpunch
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 15:40 |
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I share some of your sentiments, even though I don’t ride, though I don’t think its fair to say that the industry isn’t trying to keep up. At least I think it is. Parts of the industry are dying off, no question, but the same goes for cars. Whats the future of the sedan? it doesn’t look bright.
I am getting more and more excited than I’ve ever been by bikes in the dual sport and ADV categories and the Grom and its ilk is doing something genuinely shocking; reaching young people and getting them interesting in motors.
Now H D is doing nothing to move the sport forward and to their demise I say “good riddance” we don’t need to hold on to that bastardized version of pop culture...let the bikes be the bikes and culture write itself.
crowmolly
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 15:46 |
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The picture above was found on, as all my pictures are, Google. I saw it and just laughed. Perfectly encapsulating what I think the real problem is.
There’s been a large shift in their image.
I remember when you’d see a few guys on Harleys drive up and you’d stay the fuck away from them. Now? They are mostly casual riders who are the butt of jokes. There was a whole South Park episode about it if I remember correctly.
HDs represented the 60's-70's counterculture for many and a Harley means something to that generation. Freedom, rebellion, etc. But to a vast majority of buyers now the association is not there. Show somebody born, say, after 1995 and see if they “get” Easy Rider.
Harleys are just another bike, and they whore themselves out just like Ferrari- anything that can have a logo WILL have a logo.
They need a massive brand restructuring.
Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 15:46 |
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Some people naming a new boutique motorcycle company “confederate motors” is a problem too. Their excuse being “don’t take offense to it, we intend it differently”. Then name it differently!
I realize this a tiny portion of the industry, but it’s definitely stupid. Now the industry as a whole? If I were to buy a bike it would be for fun, for weekends and I’d buy it used. So anyone with my same philosophy will not be propping up new bike sales.
ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 15:47 |
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I assume quite a lot of younger people look at the typical HD rider and have to laugh. The whole ‘loud pipes save lives,’ ‘I’m such a rebel for being an obnoxious ass in traffic’ type of rider doesn’t win may fans.
I don’t ride and never will. I value my safety too much and do not trust other drivers even when I’m in my car; so riding a bike is just not going to happen.
I love the idea the Grom and wish I were younger and less pragmatic so I could rationalize getting one.
I agree with HHFP; the cult of HD needs to die. Just build the best bikes they can and let the culture be itself. From what I understand HD let Buell die on the vine; and for that they should be punished. I want to say Buell was quite the amazing bike builder and should have been allowed to continue being so forward looking.
notsomethingstructural
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 15:51 |
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In the current political climate and cultural nexus of America in particular, we need an outlaw, a rebel. Someone to bring the truth and come riding in on his or her two wheels. Strength in character and conviction, lead by the truth and unafraid to say what needs to be said and to whom it needs saying.
IMO some of the problem is an outlaw / rebel in 2017 looks nothing like a Marlon Brando or Steve McQueen but people still assume that “outlaw / rebel” means they have to, and the continual push for a stereotype that no longer exists just turns people off to it more. The outlaw/rebel culture has been so badly exploited it’s just another source of conformance, albeit one that’s less in the lexicon of the mainstream. The fact that you can buy a HD mug at a suburban gas station just further waters down whatever credibility it had left.
So what does the new hero look like? What is a 21st century rebel? I don’t have the answer for that. Maybe a guy in skinny jeans and tortoiseshell glasses who codes for a charity. People who would use a bicycle instead of public transit. I don’t know. To an extent, the bike should sell the rebel in the 21st century, not the rebel sell the bike. And I think the #brands would make their image a lot more inclusive if they didn’t continually insist on the latter.
Spridget
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 15:52 |
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I think the issue isn’t that bikes are being designed and targeted at the older generation exclusively, it’s the industry has gotten used to living high off the hog on all of the money the baby boomer generation has. The probably is, no one else has that kind of expendable income, but bikes are still being sold at the same price rate.
nerd_racing
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 15:57 |
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I recently took to riding a bike. 89 suzuki intruder 750. I get why people really love it, but it didn’t grip me like i thought it might. Just not my thing I suppose, not like the feeling I get taking a twisty road in a car.
Monkey B
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 16:03 |
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HD cashed in with the casual rider during the 00's that had some disposable income and broadened sales. It helped there was little loss in owning a HD. Things have changed, they kept unrealistic expectations on sales based on a fad...you don’t see American Chopper etc. on TV anymore, those buyers have moved on to whatever else is hot. On top of that values aren’t holding so less inclination to buy the antiquated overpriced bar hopper. HD needs to recognize it’s core group and lessen it’s expectations of growth while still doing something to stay relevant...I don’t know how you do that because their core group doesn’t care about anything but the label. But they were right foolish to think they would continue to thrive and grow on a fad.
There will always be HD riders and they will always be the defacto choice for certain types of clubs. But I think the competition offers more than they do for less with the casual rider...plus the current fad is cafe/bobber style and HD isn’t the optimal choice for that set. Those riders will either stop riding or grow into the Japanese/European segment that they are more familiar and comfortable with.
Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 16:05 |
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What is happening with motorcycles is the same thing with the classic car market:
The market isn’t going away, they just aren’t lusting after YOURS.
There was the 32 roadster. They spiked in value.
Then there was the 57 Chevy. They spiked in value.
Then there was the ‘69 Camaro. They spiked in value.
Now it’s the 1990 Supra. It’s seeing it’s time in the spotlight.
It’s not that the ‘69 Camaro isn’t a good car. But the people doing the six digit restorations are aging, not driving them, and soon the families will be selling them off at estate auctions. The people saying the sky is falling are the people who were betting on a rise that never falls. These days, there are a ton of great options from many countries. People are choosing to ride things like SV650s, 1200RRs, and even Ninja 300s. Rather than the default Harley with it’s “taxes”.
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Monkey B
> nerd_racing
07/19/2017 at 16:11 |
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because your doing it on a cruiser...try something with a more appropriate upright seating position and take to the crooked roads. It’s a completely different experience.
Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 16:11 |
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I struggle with lane splitting and motorcycle mobs disregarding traffic laws and police and exhausts so loud they set off car alarms. And stereos blasting to the entire neighborhood. It’s not a great image. And the lane splitters who need to twitch their throttle to startle you when you’re having a pleasant cruise down the interstate with your family and set your nerves on edge. Not having good feelings right now, so I’ll move on to thinking about something else.
Be excellent.
xyzabc
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 16:14 |
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Think Harley-Davidson is following the same, slow brand demise as Mercury, Plymouth and Oldsmobile .
Its core brand recognition (stereotype) isn’t aspirational as it used to be.
It’ll take 10 years of fresh thinking and really transformative product / transportation innovation to change and grow.
But its survival / success is much like the old psychology joke...
“ How many people does it take to change light bulb? One. But the light bulb has to really want to change .”
I hoon, therefore I am
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 16:21 |
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Motorcycle sales have remained stagnant despite HD’s struggles. The motorcycle isn’t suddenly considered uncool, it’s that the boomers drove sales for far too long, and now that customer base is hanging up their chaps.
HD’s struggles lie in their inability to read the market and adapt, a direct consequence of lethargy stemming from their near-monopoly on the domestic market. They let the culture influence their designs, rather than vice versa. And since people generally don’t want to be their parents, there was no way for them to go but down.
The motorcycle still has a faithful following, but younger buyers don’t have the same purchasing power as previous generations. This puts manufacturers in more of a bind to push a leisure* vehicle when fewer people even have a primary one.
*I’m surprised by the lack of motorcycle sales growth, given that they’re cheap, and their limitations less important for those who are not burdened by marriage or kids.
Sovande
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 16:22 |
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It’s hard to want to be as cool as Steve McQueen and Marlon Brando if you have no idea who they are, so that is a pretty hard sell to a generation of people who have never seen a cassette tape, let alone a movie from 64 years ago.
Secondly, the reason I have never had any interest in riding a motorcycle is the inherent perceived goofiness of the collective motorcycle riding public. It’s such a segmented hobby: hipsters ride cafe bikes, dentists ride Harley’s, squids ride crotch rockets, etc. I don’t want to have to dress a certain way to ride the motorcycle that appeals to me, and from the outside looking in, that is how it feels.
Lastly, this type of mumbo jumbo pseudo “free spirit” nonsense made me sad. “ We are a different breed. We do not look at the world the way you do. It’s not night and day different but know that it is different. I cannot put into words what is so special about being on a bike. It’s a feeling, an experience in the moment: one that you can live at any time and any where and only within the confines of your own head.” It’s hogwash and degrading to those of us who don’t ride bikes for whatever reason. It’s elitism and it’s corny. You are a guy who rides a motorcycle, not a guy who has a differing and somehow “freer” worldview because you ride a motorcycle.
The best rebel we could ever hope to have is someone in congress willing to work for the people instead of for reelection, not some jackwad perched high upon his iron horse spouting trite monologues about the freedom and art that riding a motorcycle purportedly represents. Enjoy your bike, but don’t mistake it for something that it’s not.
MonkeePuzzle
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 16:55 |
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good. can’t build a product people want, there is no reason to prop up an industry artificially, just let it die
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Groagun
> notsomethingstructural
07/19/2017 at 17:00 |
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This is a most excellent post. Praise well earned and deserved.
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Groagun
> Monkey B
07/19/2017 at 17:04 |
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I think you’re dead right. It begs a whole other discussion though on the foundation of free markets. How do you continually grow at a pace that satisfies the shareholders? Is this system sustainable?
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Groagun
> I hoon, therefore I am
07/19/2017 at 17:08 |
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This is the fear I have for Ducati. They keep pushing up market and out of reach of the average buyer. The Scrambler line is a savoir but I’m not sure the fad, if it’s a fad, will last. I think there is trouble on the horizon for Ducati.
Pickup_man
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 17:11 |
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I see where you’re coming from but I’m going to disagree. The motorcycle market in general has been very forward thinking lately, there are plenty of new bikes out there with high tech and innovative features. The problem isn’t with motorcycle buyers, or in the case of Jalopnik’s article young people, the problem is with Harley Davidson. As much as I like HD, and plan on owning another someday I know that as one of the young people being referred to, I’m the exception, not the rule. While most motorcycle companies have been innovating and pushing forward, Harley has been content producing the same bike and marketing to the same people since the 90's, only updating after nearly being forced to. It’s only very recently that HD has started trying to appeal to the younger crowd, not by being innovative, but by jumping on the retro/hipster/vintage styling bandwagon, and quickly pushing out some half baked version of an overpriced starter/city bike which was great in concept but poor in reality. HD was riding the wave of popularity created by the boomers and wrongly assumed that young people (dare I call them millennials?) would grow up and aspire to own a Harley just like their predecessors. Clearly that isn’t what happened and now Harley is scrambling to get back on their feet to try and maintain the dominance they have on the market. Harley certainly isn’t going away and they’re at least trying to shove forward, even against the wishes of all the Harley faithful who have very few years of riding left in them, but I think it will be too little and to late, the reign of Harley Davidson is slowly coming to and end, the best they can do is minimize their losses and hopefully recover before everything comes crashing in around them.
In this world of acceptance of everybody (a good thing) there are no more rebels or outlaws. Rebels and outlaws are now just another group of people who think differently than the countless other different groups of people. They are merely seen as being different, not rebellious.
Today’s “rebels” are craftsmen, builders, people who would rather make something that buy it. These people are reviving skills and trades that were nearly lost and because of that custom home built bikes are back in a huge way. More and more people and shops are popping up out of the wood work building custom bikes, and tons of people are building their own bikes at home because building or fixing your own bike, even if it’s a crappy bike is seen as being much cooler than buying one of the showroom floor. Bike shows are transitioning from simply seeing who has the most money for the most amount of chrome, to seeing what each person has done to make the bike their own, to gather ideas on how to make something better, or cooler, or simply different. So I don’t think this generation will ever have that one singular face of rebellion, because we have many.
The motorcycle industry is moving forward, and will keep moving forward, there are just a few manufacturers who need to decide how they’ll move forward with it.
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Groagun
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
07/19/2017 at 17:15 |
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I can’t lane split where I live but I do support it and wish I could.
I fully understand and respect your concerns however. It is incumbent upon each rider and individual to conduct themselves in a lawful and considerate manner while out there on the roads.
All to often bikers are the cause of the their own misfortune and then act holy than though when the shit hits the fan.
I’ve crusaded against such bikers and know fully that their stupid, unlawful and dangerous actions affect and hinder everyone out there: fellow bikers included.
DipodomysDeserti
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 17:16 |
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Good read. We should start an Oppo like page for bikes.
I’m only thirty and all the guys I know who ride are younger than me. We just aren’t buying overpriced new Harleys. I mostly see new Harleys as bikes for people who have never been into motorcycles, but watched too many episodes of SoA and want to play cowboy. Most of my friends come from the hardcore/punk community , so we aren’t what you’d consider mainstream Americans. Most of us aren’t criminals, but we definitely aren’t dudley do rights. We are all pretty nailed to our convictions, and are content to watch the rest of the world burn itself down around us.
I couldn’t care less if the motorcycles as an industry didn’t take one more step forward. As I see it, technological advancement (as it exists today) only serves to reduce the purity of things. It’s the opposite of what Pirsig talk about in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Instead of technology bringing us closer to our machines it further separates us from them. The purity of riding motorcycles exists in that union between man and machine. Shit, now I need a ride.
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Groagun
> Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs
07/19/2017 at 17:18 |
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I totally feel the same about that company. Great bikes, boutique most definitely but that name has to go. HAS TO GO!
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Groagun
> Sovande
07/19/2017 at 17:29 |
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I’m not sure why or who told you that you had to dress or act or be a certain way to ride a particular type of bike. Ride naked for all we or I care.
Clearly you didn’t get the post and have some sort of issue. Truthfully I don’t give a shit. You don’t like or want to ride, that’s your business. But don’t tell me what riding is to me or how it feels to me.
If the things I describe about motorcycling don’t appeal to you, then they simply they don’t appeal to you. Keep to your car or truck and never give me or us another thought.
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Sovande
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 18:07 |
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Did I strike a nerve?
No, clearly I didn’t get the post. It read, to me, as some sort of self congratulatory exercise about how free you are because you ride and how that freedom is being undermined because motorcycles cost more money than you think they should. Heaven forbid corporations make money selling products to consumers with the cash to buy them.
Why is it that you think this country needs rebels? To rebel against what? And with what? Loud pipes? Your overreaching desire to be different?
Motorcycles riders, as a whole, seem like a juvenile bunch of people who seem to think that the rules exist in spite of then. This is not the case. Nobody wants to hear your exhaust. Nobody wants to see you pass on the right at 120mph through traffic. Nobody cares that you can do a burnout with your 250cc Ninja. Nobody cares that you think it makes you look tough.
Counterculture? Rebels? Give me a break already.
cmill189 - sans Volvo
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 18:19 |
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I guess I didn’t really get it either. I ride and I love doing it but there’s nothing magical about it. Literally anyone outside of people bound to wheelchairs can ride a motorcycle. I’d argue that climbing and descending a mountain on a road bike w/ 23mm tires takes a hell of lot more skill and has a lot more payoff. Same for keeping a loaded touring bicycle upright at 5mph. Maybe my perspective is skewed from torturing myself bicycling before getting a motorcycle. It’s fucking easy by comparison.
Also, the heroes you’re looking for are never going to be found. Back in the olden days, one of the requirements for riding a motorcycle was knowing how to work on it. That kept the normies away and only those that REALLY wanted to ride would put up with that crap. At the very least adjustments and carb tuning. Go back even further and you’ve got ignition retard levers, suicide-shifters, total-loss oiling, foot clutches, and other crazy shit. Pretty much any bike from the last thirty years can be treated like a Kia. It’s probably gonna start regardless of how poorly it was taken car of. The last 15 years are pretty much all fuel-injected.
HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 18:51 |
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Harpy Davidson has spent the past 60 years marketing to baby boomers. Now they’re all dead or too old. Being a millennial myself I’ve grown up with the impression that Harley’s are for Middle Aged over weight white guys.
nermal
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 20:53 |
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The motorcycle isn’t dying, just HD. Look at Ducati - They’ve set sales records the past two years because of these:
That doesn’t scream “Ducati” in any sense of the word. But it sells, and to a younger crowd than $30k sportbikes that the brand is built on. HD is still building the same general crap they have always built, and the market for that is dying off.
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Groagun
> Sovande
07/19/2017 at 21:53 |
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Holy shit your an asshole. You have got some issues. Is it like a neighbor or something? Your daughter married a bike gang member? Seriously WTF is it?
I hope you get to terms with whatever is driving you to this dark place. Other than that, have a nice life.
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Groagun
> Pickup_man
07/19/2017 at 22:01 |
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Very well put Sir.
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Sovande
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 22:06 |
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*You’re
AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 22:32 |
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Enter monster 797. The baby monster always sells. Lately, I’ve been seeing more Ducatis than anything else. Some cities have so much money it’s scary. And by cities I mean the people in them.
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AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> DipodomysDeserti
07/19/2017 at 22:43 |
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Also 30 and from the punk community. Horns in the air for you sir. Most of the people I know who ride, ride cheap older used bikes. Except for yours truly who wants nothing to do with wrenching on a toy outside of work. I bought a bike to ride, damn it!
Kiltedpadre
> Groagun
07/19/2017 at 23:31 |
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I think that’s the crux for many public traded companies. Merely being consistently profitable isn’t enough. Things have to continually grow to keep the shareholders happy.
For HD to really turn things around with younger riders it’s going to take tons of money in the form of advertising to younger riders and developing new products that are appealing to those outside of their current core market. That might just require some lean years for them.
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DipodomysDeserti
> AMGtech - now with more recalls!
07/20/2017 at 01:17 |
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A close friend of mine has bought a couple of used Monsters. His dad is an old school Ducati guy amd he keeps tryong to get me to sell my old bike and buy a Ducati so we can tour together. It’s tempting, but I just love old bikes. I might pick up a cheap SV for long rides.
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AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> DipodomysDeserti
07/20/2017 at 02:55 |
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Solution:
pip bip - choose Corrour
> Pickup_man
07/20/2017 at 06:38 |
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if i was buying a bike , i’d buy a Honda NBC110 Super Cub.
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DipodomysDeserti
> AMGtech - now with more recalls!
07/20/2017 at 08:16 |
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Mmmmmmmmm